Thoughts On The X Prize
Now that we have completed the Shakedown stage and are back in our Lynchburg shop, here are a few thoughts about the Progressive Insurance Automotive X Prize.
No one said this would be easy and it is not. As Oliver noted, if it was easy the big auto manufacturers would have already done it. But the X Prize competition is exciting and important and we are very glad to be part of it.
By now we have seen many of the other teams and cars. The overall standard of our competitors is high. Everyone has put their heart and soul into this and it shows. There are a lot of different approaches to this problem of extreme efficiency, and some real surprises. Who would have thought the Illumnati Seven car would be the fastest through the lane change test, or that the Aptera would need 40 tries?
The competition is demanding but fair. The X Prize has an impressive array of experts and it is rigorous, as it should be. Just as making a 100mpg car is new to all of the teams, running this efficiency competition is new to the X Prize folks. They are doing a good job of expecting a lot yet being reasonable, and the process is a good one.
The Very Light Car turns heads, and on a closer look impresses people: stunning is the word that automotive writer Ronald Ahrens used. We feel very good about the approach we have taken and where we are. All four of our cars move on to the Knockout stage. At the Shakedown we did almost 85 mpg (on the EPA cycle that reduced the Prius from 60 to 45) and we can improve this with better mapping and better launches: we have yet to finalize gearing and clutches. We see 100+ MPG as clearly obtainable.
The Knockout stage starts June 20. Follow us on this blog and our Edison2 facebook page.
X Prize
Reader Comments (10)
I read the X Prize rules. Overall the technical details seem reasonable enough but there is one huge issue that they have completely botched in my opinion (if their intent was a level playing field in regard to “energy efficiency”). Their “MPGe” metric is indefensibly flawed, and gives an approx. 2:1 advantage to plug-in electric vehicles in terms of achieving the 100 MPGe goal. They discuss this issue in the FAQ’s, but use invalid arguments to defend this distortion. It seems pretty clear that the committee wished to “stack the deck” in favor of plug-in electric cars. Let me explain.
In terms of “energy availability” one cannot weigh electricity vs. a chemical fuel as equals. Electricity is a “pure” form of energy which can be converted to work at very high efficiency, but it first must be produced from a primary energy feedsource or fuel. A chemical fuel is combusted to run a heat engine to produce work. All heat engines are bound by the laws of thermodynamics to have efficiency no greater than the Carnot efficiency. Power plants that burn a chemical fuel (coal, oil, natural gas, biomass) or use a heat process (nuclear, solar thermal) also have upper efficiency limits, and range from 45% to 60% efficient (typically ~50%).
Therefore, a watt-hour of electric power from a wall socket has already burned fuel with a chemical energy of about twice that amount. The XP rules exclude this detail from the MPGe calculation, creating a huge apples-vs-oranges mismatch. In a fuel burning car, this “thermodynamic conversion loss” necessarily happens inside its engine, while with an electric car it occurs in the power plant (unaccounted for).
It should probably also be pointed out that there is no realistic way that a fuel burning car engine can be made as efficient as a modern power plant. Power plants are large, complicated and expensive to achieve optimized efficiency, while a car has extreme restrictions on size, weight and cost and also responsiveness. Therefore, the VLC’s better than 32% thermal efficiency (calculated from the < 0.4 lb/hp-hour that Oliver quoted) is quite good, although off-the-shelf Kubota turbodiesels get similar results (I don’t know about their emissions, however).
I think that any Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) with a half-decent electrical system should easily pass the “100 MPGe” requirement under the bogus XP rules. Fuel powered vehicles, however, have an extreme stretch goal on their hands to achieve this mileage, and a lot of headaches to meet the emissions requirements (which I believe were inappropriate for this competition as it makes it too costly and “test intensive” for anyone doing engine modifications).
The BEV’s aren’t completely in the clear, however. The 200 mile range requirement is going to be moderately challenging, and possibly the charging time / amperage limits. Also, the handling requirements will be challenging with all their battery weight and efficiency often suffers greatly at higher speeds / accelerations. However, I see these issues as less problematic to engineer than the 100 MPG requirement is for fueled vehicles.
The Tesla Roadster seems to <just meet> all the BEV requirements based on their data sheet – so I’m a bit perplexed why they pulled-out (anyone know more about this ?). Maybe they viewed the potential of losing as too risky to their sales…or maybe their range suffers too much at higher speeds ?
I haven’t had time to look into the “Plug-In Hybrid” requirements in detail, but I’m guessing that these could have the easiest time meeting all requirements, at the expense of complexity. The “plug-in” electric portion gives a great advantage to MPGe as mentioned above (under XP rules, not under real physics), and the fuel-burning hybrid engine will give better range and less batteries / lower weight.
Good luck to Edison2. Sophisticated and Simple and Sporty all at the same time !
I also think that Illuminati Motor Works has done a commendable job on their shoestring budget, although their body looks like a mutant Karmann Ghia from the front and a botched 1930’s boat-tail replica from the rear.
Kudos to West Philly too ! I wish that I could have done a project this cool when I was in engineering school.
Best of luck to all the remaining contestants !
Kevin
I need to update one comment I made in my prior post. I realized that when Oliver had previously mentioned that the VLC was getting a “specific fuel consumption of less than 0.4 lb/hp-hour”, I wasn’t sure if he was talking about “gasoline equivalent”, or ethanol. Also, my comment about Kubota turbo-diesel’s getting similar (just under 0.4) would be using diesel fuel, of course. My own “apples vs. oranges” mistake !
Anyway, I made a spreadsheet and calculated with more care, and used the fuel specs from the X-Prize document. Surprisingly, burning gasoline or diesel at this 0.4 rate equates to about the same “net thermal efficiency” (34.1%, 34.6% respectively). This is because although diesel has more energy per gallon, it also weighs more than gasoline (notice that the units include weight, not volume). These figures are very good, but I don’t think they are really ground breaking. (Well…it was “less than 0.4”, so I guess the question is “how much less?”). Don’t get me wrong – I think what is known about the VLC engine seems terrific because the power-to-weight is very good as well as the responsiveness. I’m just saying that if these are indeed the efficiency numbers, there is probably room for improvement.
However, if the number was actually referring to ethanol specific fuel consumption – then the VLC engine’s net efficiency would be 54.9%, which would be STELLAR ! Oliver – is the figure for ethanol consumption, or equivalent gasoline? Sorry about missing this the first time.
Lastly, I just re-read the rules regarding how the X-Prize handles the 100 MPGe electric equivalent. I stand by my prior comments – it is quite indefensible from a scientific standpoint how they have tweaked the MPG metric for electric power. They admit as much in the FAQ’s, but say it is only about 20% advantage (due to Green House Gas limits) – but they are the ones being specious, as their method gives an approx. 2:1 advantage to electric cars vs. fueled regarding the MPG metric. Doesn’t it make sense that the measure should generally reflect how much total fuel is burned? I agree with some of their comments about eliminating the “murky upstream stuff” like grid efficiency and energy used to mine and produce the fuel - but these are small things compared to the ~50% “thermodynamic conversion loss” to create electricity in the power plant. This can’t be ignored, and I think any college thermodynamics professor would agree. Oh well…probably a moot point now, and sorry for being negative.
Cheers, Kevin
I've been watching with some interest; kudos to the Edison2 team on their accomplishment!
The big surprise to me was the Spira team passing all the tests, but in many ways their design seems the most similar to the VLC (their website reports their gasoline-powered vehicle as being well under 1000 lbs). I'm skeptical they can quite get to 100mpg with that stock motorcycle engine, but it looks like a plausible effort, especially in their orignal target market given the likely low manufacturing costs.
Commercial Led Lighting- leading commercial led lighting manufacturer in india and providing quality Commercial Led Lighting, outdoor commercial led lighting, commercial led exterior lighting.
I have tried to keep up with the activities surrounding the Auto X-Prize, but it isn't easy.today i found your site really its good to read this topic again.
window tint
I have buyed many products on line.Cool.I found some good sites,whose pruducts have gained popularity among socialites and celebrities.From these sites,several of my friends buyed products.The Website including.
weight loss
diet pills
how to lose weight fast
louis vuitton
replica handbags
lv
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton handbags
discount handbags
lv
discount handbags
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton blog
louis vuitton
replica handbags
lv
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton handbags
discount handbags
lv
discount handbags
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton
replica handbags
lv
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton handbags
discount handbags
lv
discount handbags
louis vuitton bags
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
ed hardy
ed hardy clothing
ed hardy clothing shirts
ed hardy clothes
ed hardy t shirts
ed hardy
ed hardy clothing
ed hardy clothing shirts
ed hardy clothes
ed hardy t shirts
rosetta stone
rosetta stone software
rosetta
chaojimengnan supplier
chaojimengnan
ecco shoes develop quality for discerning customers and Experience the comfort, free shipping.Buy ecco shoes with a price guarantee and top rated customer service.enjoy ecco shoes Find exactly what you want today Looking for discount Ecco shoes.
prada handbags is an italian fashion label specializing in luxury goods for men and women.Welcome to enjoy
designer and discount prada bags sale.cheap and model prada handbags for free shipping.welcome to designer
prada handbags for quality guarantee.
chanel handbags develop qulity for discerning lady.Find the new collection of d&g
handbags on b2chandbag.com,The best quality of chanel handbags online.Welcome to
enjoy discount d&g bags for free shipping,price guarantee.cheap and designer
chanel handbags.
we provides you the best and most fashionable products. All the products are 100% high quality, competitive price, free shipping with best and timely service, 100% satisfaction. Big discount for big order. Welcome to make your choose.
ugg
ugg boots
ugg shoes
ugg tall boots
ugg short boots
ugg boots sale
ugg boots on sale
ugg boots on cheap
ugg discount
uggs
discount uggs
ugg sale
ugg kids
ugg women
ugg men
cheap ugg
gucci
gucci handbags
gucci bags
gucci wallet
gucci shoes>
gucci sunglasses
gucci men
gucci women
gucci cheap
gucci discount
gucci outlet
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
ugg
ugg boots
ugg shoes
ugg tall boots
ugg short boots
ugg boots sale
ugg boots on sale
ugg boots on cheap
ugg discount
discount ugg
uggs
discount uggs
ugg sale
ugg kids
ugg women
ugg men
cheap ugg
weight loss
diet pills
how to lose weight fast
louis vuitton
replica handbags
lv
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton handbags
discount handbags
lv
discount handbags
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton
replica handbags
lv
louis vuitton bags
louis vuitton handbags
discount handbags
lv
discount handbags
louis vuitton bags
ed hardy
ed hardy clothing
ed hardy clothing shirts
ed hardy clothes
ed hardy t shirts
ed hardy
ed hardy clothing
ed hardy clothing shirts
ed hardy clothes
ed hardy t shirts
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
christian louboutin
louboutin
christian louboutin shoes
louboutin shoes
bridal shoes
sexy shoes
high heels shoes
rosetta stone
rosetta stone software
rosetta
chaojimengnan supplier
chaojimengnan
mbt
mbts
mbt shoes
chesp mbt shoes
walking shoes
discount shoes
comfort shoes
discount mbt shoes
mbt
mbts
mbt shoes
chesp mbt shoes
walking shoes
discount shoes
comfort shoes
discount mbt shoes
mbt
mbts
mbt shoes
chesp mbt shoes
walking shoes
discount shoes
comfort shoes
discount mbt shoes
pleted the Shakedown stage and are back in our Lynchburg shop, here are a few thoughts about the Progressive Insurance Automotive X Prize.
No one said this would be easy and it is not. As Oliver noted, if it was easy the big auto manufacturers would have already done it. But the X Prize competition is exciting and important and we are very glad to be part of it.
By now we have seen many of the other teams and cars. The overall standard of our competitors is high. Everyone has put their heart and soul into this and it shows. There are a lot of different approaches to this problem of extreme efficietag replicas|
This is very exciting, kudos to the team!